International Tax Advisory - Sarah Tomlinson

Well, it turns out that accounting isn’t that boring after all. Although those considering audit might want to take a careful look at what’s involved.

Accountancy was cited by almost everyone as a brilliant place to get a solid understanding of business and many people exploit the training as a springboard into other careers both within finance and more broadly (such as management consultancy). This makes it a pretty good option for those who aren’t entirely sure which direction to take but who want a solid qualification from which to build.

The exact qualification you sign-up to will depend on what interests you and what slant you want your training to have. Typically at the big 4 you’ll be going for the ACA, which probably has the edge in terms of prestige. If you’re interested in being an accountant within a business then you’ll be heading in the direction of CIMA. Public service has its own specialised training and that’s CIPFA.

Something that may seem a little counter intuitive is that you don’t actually have to be a math geek to be successful in this industry. Whilst it might help for more specialized areas such as tax and actuarial work, most people we spoke to didn’t have a clue what the whole top row of a calculator does!

Who are you and what do you do?

I am Sarah Tomlinson and I work within the international assignments solutions within tax at Deloitte in Reading.

What is Tax?

What is tax? Well obviously everyone knows what tax is to a certain extent, to the understanding of how the Government gets money. The tax industry is obviously massive because everyone doesn't want to pay it.  So that is our main focus, how can we reduce our clients tax bill. At the end of the day, tax is split up because there are lots and lots of different taxes, there are about seven, the main tax, the departments you would be thinking about would be corporation tax, private clients, the international assignment taxes, employer taxes. They are the main ones that you will find within the industry.

What attracted you to this career?

Again, to give you a bit of background, I am from Barbados, I left there when I was 16 and went over to Canada.  I then did my A level equivalent and also went on to do a finance and accounting degree there.  Then I was ready for a new continent so I came over to the UK, not really sure what I was going to do.  I think I worked in a pub for a couple of weeks, and did various bits and bobs.  I then really thought about it seriously and decided a Top Four Firm was a good stepping stone because it wasn't really sure what  I wanted to do.  I chose Deloitte because I really liked the people.  Everyone is really young and enthusiastic and.  It is a good mix of men and women.  I just really liked everything about the atmosphere of the office and then I chose tax, I didn't really want to do audit, I have tried that before and it wasn’t for me.  Then I got into the international tax because I liked the international aspect of it.

What does your job involve?

All of my clients are large global companies and they want to provide an incentive to their key employees so they allow them to work in all the different countries that they have companies in.  So generally we are working with the best companies and their best people.  I basically manage assigning population of about 500 people.  So that is just people like you and me who are doing well in their job and they go to work in other countries or they are from other countries and they come to work in the UK and I basically make sure that both the company and employee are abiding by all the tax laws in both countries. That is the quick summary of what I do.

Why International Tax?

Well tax is really massive there are lots and lots of departments I had tried the whole accounting thing already which is much more administrative to me because it is kind of ticking boxes and checking numbers and that wasn't for me, I didn't find it interesting. Ex-pat tax or international tax is changing every day and it is such a hot topic because the world is becoming a smaller place, people are travelling much easier and moving countries with their jobs so I guess I liked the fact that it is ever changing and it is the international side of it.  I love travelling and I love meeting people from all over the world and I am not from here so, again the flexibility of moving back home or moving to another country, that really appealed to me.

Describe the process of your work?

There are two sides, so if we look at the individual first of all.   I help them with all their personal tax, so if you were told "ok, we are going to send you over to China for three years”, I would meet with you in the UK, explain what it is going to mean for you,what taxes you need to be aware of.  Then I would follow on and do your tax returns in both China and the UK.  We liaise with the Chinese office so we have companies all over the world, contacts that I work with.  So that is really nice because I get to know every single person that I work with, and their families and obviously everyone is different, no one is going to the same countries in the exact same situations, so I really like that aspect of my job.  The other aspect is more advisory that is more directly with these large companies, where they want to make sure that they are providing good packages to their key employees and doing it the most cost effective way.  Because often they will pay the taxes for them, so there are lots of opportunities for advisory work with them.

What are the speicialisms within your industry?

If you worked with a smaller firm you may just be in a department called tax and you would probably deal with a bit of everything. If you work with a bigger firm you are going to be specialised without a doubt because they are very different.  So obviously corporation tax is really just focused on what companies are paying at the end of the day for their tax bill. Private tax is looking at wealthy individuals, we have a lot of famous people for example, as clients.  Lots of football players. We manage their personal tax bill. Everyone knows what VAT is because we pay it when we buy clothes or food or anything.  So reducing the VAT and allowing companies to reclaim as much as possible.  In terms of employer taxes that is things like developing really tax efficient share option plans or allowing companies to make terminations for their employees in the most tax efficient way.  Then again international tax which is what I am in, is for allowing companies to send their key employees all around the world in the most tax efficient and compliant way.  So tax really is a very broad area and I would definitely recommend that people look into it a bit more because it isn't what everyone thinks, you know this boring tax man running around in an old fashioned suit sitting by his computer with big glasses on.

What do you do on a typical day?

It is really mixed so a typical day I usually meet with two individuals a day.  Because they are all over the world it is usually by conference calls within the office. I do manage a lot of emails, again everyone is in different time zones so that is the best line of communications. So it is a lot of emails and conference calls that go on. We are still within tax so you do have to know how to use a spreadsheet and manage figures but generally it is more of an advisory thing there is a lot of consulting.  So someone might contact me and be selling an asset in China but they may be resident in the US and the UK as well so I then consider all three countries and where has the primary tax and rights and generally try to give them some money basically.

What are the best bits about your job?

That would definitely have to be meeting with people.  I get such a lot of job satisfaction when I go and meet with someone who is kind of petrified because they don't know what to expect, and tax is something that everyone kind of says "oh what is that" and it is my job to really calm them down, explain everything to them in layman's terms and make them reassured that we are going to deal with all their taxes for them.

What are the worst bits about your job?

The worst bit has to be the admin but then again I think every single job has admin and wherever I have worked, I just can't escape it.  The good news is that within Deloitte I know that progression is quite quick, so as you go up the ranks, I am now an assistant manager in a department and I can delegate most of my admin, which is always helpful.

What has been your greatest achievement?

I think my time here has been an overall achievement that I am really proud of.  I joined about three years ago knowing nothing about tax and now I am going to be a manager in a few months, which to me is a great achievement and I will also be a chartered tax advisor so it is leaving me in a really good position in just three years. So great achievements, great salary, good degree and lots of opportunities

Any regrets?

I don't think so, I think I am in such a great position at the moment that I can't say I would change anything.  My current options are, stay here and go for director, Partner, or alternatively go to another country, which is something I may consider because obviously international tax can be done anywhere.  Or work within one of my clients.  So in other words work with a large corporation and help them manage their assigning population internally.

What is the pay like and are there any perks?

The pay is really good I know at Deloitte they are really competitive with their salaries, that always makes me happy to be here.  They always recognise good performance throughout the year with bonuses at the end, which is always nice.  In addition to that there are also other perks such as travelling like I mentioned earlier, and the amount of investment they put in you in terms of developing you to become a stronger person.  In terms of leadership, because I have teams below me that I manage, in terms of the tax itself and becoming a tax advisor.  I guess in addition there is also partying, we go out quite a lot, it is quite a social department which I really enjoy, another reason I joined was because it was such a young group.  I guess they are the main reasons.

How long is a working day and do you have to work out of hours?

Well with ex-pat tax we do have a really busy period which is generally in January. So in January the whole team will work late into the evening, around 9 or 10 o'clock. But it is a real team effort and the firm are really considerate of the fact that you are working these extra hours so it is nice because it is quite flexible.  So if I didn't come in until 10 or 11 in the morning, it wouldn't be a big deal and no one would question me because they know at that at the end of the day I am going to work my hours and I am going to get my work done. But yes I do sometimes have to work overtime and I won't say I have never come in over the weekend but that is just part of the job and again because of the flexibility of the job, I don't mind it.

Is there much in the way of travel?

Well a lot of my clients are in Europe, so I have been travelling quite a lot to Europe and Deloitte obviously provide lots of conferences which are in the US and Europe, every single year.  If you are performing well you will probably be chosen to go these conferences and meet with people from the entire region. The main regions I go to are APAC, which are Asian Pacific, EMEA, which is Europe, Middle East and Africa, and in the US, so that is really great, I really enjoy travelling for work. Also within the UK, which I like because I am not from the UK, so we have a lot of training centres where we go quite regularly.

Do you have to be based anywhere in particular?

No absolutely not, there are regional offices, as well as the London office.  I think it really depends on the type of person, which office suits you the best.  London is a really big office with about a thousand people, that is the third biggest ex-pat department in the world.  I have been there before and it is what you would expect of a typical London top four firm, you know almost cut-throat in a away. The Reading office - we are the next biggest, which is nice and we have about 100 people, which is a manageable amount of people, you have a really nice close nit teams and everyone supports each other so for me personally it suited me better because the development has been brilliant they really do invest a lot of time in you and you have the chance to kind of shine and do really really well. If you do well, you are going to be chosen to go to conferences in Europe and things like that much easier than, I think, if you were in London.  In addition to that you really are doing your role, so if you are a manager, you do have a team below you, it may not be about ten people like it would in London, it may be about five people, allowing you to move up the ranks quite quickly. In some of the other regional offices, I know that they are like that even better it is much more close knit where maybe they have 30 or 40 people and they do work with much smaller teams. For them that suits them well so it just depends on the individual. For me I think Reading has been really really good middle ground.

What is the working environment like?

Well here in the Reading office, in my department specifically, it is a really great mix of men and women and it is one of the reasons I chose it actually because for example I have a female partner and a male partner and the Partners are the head of the department and that is really unusual for Top Four firms for female directors and partners, that is something that Deloitte has quite a lot.  So that is really nice for me. I also work with people from all over the world,. the girl who sits on my left is from Nigeria, the girl on my right is from Texas, there are lots of Brits there as well but we have a real mix of cultures, which to me always adds value. In terms of the seating plan, there are no rooms so the senior partners sit in the same area as all of us and that is really nice, you always feel you can approach everyone, its very comfortable. As you get more senior you do move closer to the windows but that is really it, otherwise it is very even Stevens within the group but lots of offices are very different. There are offices where you do have rooms but within the main office we are very open plan and I like that a lot.  In terms of dress code, I would say it is kind of semi casual, semi formal, it is not over-formal at all we don't wear a suit for work for example, we wear jeans on Fridays.  Obviously if we are going to meet with a client we will wear a suit but otherwise it is pretty relaxed.

How did you get into your job?

Well I did a finance degree but in Canada, so yes it was slightly different but they still have a comparison, so to join Deloitte, I think you have to have a minimum of 2:1 in the UK and they do the equivalent anywhere else. As I told you, when I first came to the UK and was considering working for the Top Four, I went to see all of them and chose Deloitte specifically really because of the people because everyone was young and interesting and kind of energetic and I just liked that kind of atmosphere. Once I decided I wanted to join Deloitte, you have to go through a graduate process, so you apply on line first of all and then go through a series of interviews which are quite difficult especially when you have just come from university and you don't really know what to expect. But they are really friendly and they help you through the process and as long as you are a confident person, I think you will get through with no problem at all.  So you have to have the degree, but you also have to be a kind of well rounded person so it isn't just about what university you went to it is about what other things you are interested in and what other things you have done in your past.

What's the application process like?

There is a series of interviews, so you do about four interviews, the first one is a general get to know you kind of thing and they do ask you specific questions and some of them are a bit out there and it's important - I remember they asked a lot of questions about what I knew about Deloitte as well so a good tip is check the website before you go for your interview, know it intimately. So once you get through that round you do some tests so I think I did an English and a Maths test which is very quick under pressure mainly because of the time. If you pass those tests you come back again. I did an in-tray exercise, where you get put into a scenario and it is almost like an office environment, you get given a computer with your own Outlook, your own email address and there is a client email in there and you need to review the email and consider different things that you think should be brought up with the client. It will look at things like are you aware of what is going on in the market, so it might link in with something happening with the market, just the news basically. Then get asked a variety of questions usually from a senior member of the department you are applying to be in to give your thoughts on it. So it is quite tricky because you have all these thoughts about "do I need to know about tax to do this”, but obviously you don't because you are a graduate, so it is just about showing them that you have some kind of awareness of the industry and what is going on in the market place. 

Interviewer: You had to apply direct to the department as in you knew you wanted to do international tax and you had to apply for that particular programme?

Yes you do have to apply directly so there are lot of opportunities to see what is on offer first because no one knows straight away and to be honest it is really difficult to know what even exists out there so international tax isn't a flashing yellow thing, people just think -"oh it's tax" but actually tax has about 6 or 7 departments within it. So I definitely recommend that you come to all the different conferences or evenings that are available. Or there are lots of placement programmes so a lot of people who joined with me had already worked here and they go on rotations and work in all different tax departments and also audit, for example, and then they can decide which one is for them so if I had been in the UK previously I think that is the route I would have tried to go.

If you don't get through the graduate, the graduate process is the official way of joining the firm and I think that for someone joining straight from university or joining to be an associate this is the kind of expected way.  I think there are definitely other opportunities to get in if you don't go through the graduate scheme so you can apply at any time of the year and join at any time of the year.  So the graduate scheme traditionally comes in as one group in September lots of people join throughout the year so that would be more of a kind of relaxed process.  The other option would be if you don't get in as a graduate maybe you feel your grades are not as high as you need for the graduate process you could go and work for another smaller firm potentially and then come into the Deloitte network as an experienced higher and lots of people do this on a regular basis I have an example with a friend of mine who tried to come through as a graduate and actually got rejected just on the basis of his grades, he then went to work for a smaller firm for a few years, where the progression is going to be a lot slower but he then came back to Deloitte and got in as an experience higher and he is now one of our most valued managers so it does show that the graduate programme doesn't always work out to the best because there are lots of other people who can get through but if you can improve that and get experience at smaller firms then you are going to be just as likely to be joined into Deloitte and move up the ladder yourself.

What are the key skills required for your job?

You need to be quite organised you need to be able to work under pressure, especially within ex-pat tax, there is constant pressure you get used to handling that and people really help you but it develops really really quickly because you have to.

If you are someone who is confident, you like to meet new people and you think you do work well under pressure then this is probably going to be a really good industry for you to get into. I think in a way the fact that it is tax doesn't have that much of a bearing on it in a way. Everyone thinks of tax and thinks it is really boring but actually it is really interesting. It isn't just a bunch of nerds sitting by a computer we are quite a diverse group and I think that really helps. There are people who have done maths, for example, as a degree but there are also people who have done drama up there in my department and so there is no pressure about maths at all it isn't traditional accounting, I think that is the key clarification. This is tax advisory so you spend a lot more time trying to work out which country would have the primary taxing rights to working out the actual tax. The actual calculation of the tax is a small side, it is the compliance side to it and we don't get that involved in. So anyone who feels that a weakness in maths would be a weakness in the department, I don't think that would be a big worry. I think the key thing is if you are someone who really wants to be just technical and nothing else, then it may not be the best choice for you, you need to be someone who is interactive as well because you are meeting new people everyday and you are trying to get them interested in their tax as well, so that is what I meant by not just a bunch of nerds sitting by the computer because generally people who are like that don't succeed within the department because they can't interact socially with the clients so that is almost just as important a side as being intelligent and doing well at your technical side of your job. So that is why within the interview process it isn't just about your grades.

What's your top tip for breaking into your industry?

In terms of the actual application I would say just remember it isn't just about the marks because that isn't what we are looking for. We are looking for well rounded people who enjoy things outside of school so, were they involved in sports team, were they a captain of the sports team, have you had any leadership opportunities so for example, I know that was a big part of my application process, my interview was all the other stuff I had done so, this is a US kind of thing, but I was in a sorority, I was the president in the sorority which was half of my interview talking about how I led the girls through that four years. That is the kind of thing that can make a difference to you because everyone who is applying is going to have the grades, but that isn't really going to make you different or special so it is all about what you have to add, what other value you have for the department.

What's the career progress and how quickly can you move up the career ladder?

I would say, if you come into the department, if you do a good job, and you are consistently performing well, you would expect to be promoted every year. So it is a really really great stepping up process. They are very very open, so you know what you can hope to get each year. So for example, I joined three years ago not knowing  the first thing about tax and I am going to be a manager in three and a half years, which to me is amazing that I have actually been able to progress so quickly within such a big firm, so really really good opportunity there and if you are looking like you aren't going to make that, then people will really work with you to make sure that you can.  So it is a really fast pace and to be honest that doesn't work for everyone, some people find it really difficult, they are happy just doing their job for say two years and then maybe thinking about promotion and that doesn't really work in this kind of environment so be prepared to be expected to work hard and be expected to work hard every year, which is great for me I like that.

How does the role change over time?

When you first join as an graduate you become an associate and you can be an associate for up to two years and that is the kind of expectation. As an associate you are really just learning the basics, so you do a proper tax course, you become qualified within the UK to give tax advice and you learn the basics so you do have a slightly more administrative role but these are things that are just going to help you prepare a good foundation for going upwards and then within your second year you have someone below you so you can delegate. From your second year, you then become assistant manager, third and fourth year, again for two years. From the time that you become an assistant manager it really changes a lot because that is when you have face to face contact with clients and you are the one running the tax meeting for example. I know I have really enjoyed my job much more since I became an assistant manager because of the fact that I am kind of running the show, my managers are there to support me, but they are obviously doing other things, so when you go to your manager it is much more high level and strategic about the advice you are given and how you can improve the company or the client that you have.

Where do you see the industry going?

Recently back in April, the Budget came out and I am sure you have seen a lot in the news about it, where for non-domiciled individuals, which is basically anyone not from the UK, who come into the UK to work, the tax laws have changed massively and it is going to have a really big impact on the industry so definitely know about that if you are coming for an interview but it is great because it has made so much business for us we are working with our clients to let them know what the changes are and obviously it is potentially going to cost them a lot more money because the Government is trying to get more tax out of them so we are looking at alternatives and it is a whole new spectrum to this because everything has changed so much, now that the UK Government have put this new law in.

Is there scope for movement during or after this career?

As ex-pat tax you do chartered tax advisor (CTA) and that covers all taxes so I could go and work in any tax that I want I could continue to work within a Top Four or I could go and work in-house in an actual company and do their taxes for them. In terms of other countries, the British qualification is accepted in pretty much all countries and it is really similar to most other ones where it is not the exact same. The only country where it would be different is the US but again it doesn't really matter because you can spend six months in the US and straight away know, you just learn because it is so similar, so very transferable.

The great thing working in ex-pat tax is that you can transfer to another department quite easily and it is part of the norm and it just adds to your development so the Partners are really eager for you to do that.  For example I have a friend who are now in Australia, New York, gone back to Texas, in New Zealand, so you can move around quite easily and I think this is something people really appreciate and like to know they can have this opportunity to live in another country and the standard period would be for two years but you can also go for much shorter periods so if you wanted to go for a six month secondment you might go to somewhere in Europe for example. This is the kind of thing which really adds value to being within the international tax department.

What are the industry resources that someone interested in joining must know about?

Honestly there are but I don't read them. We have got great resources within Deloitte so most of the updates are emailed to me on a daily basis and I check the ones I am interested in. There is a tax advisor magazine that is issued quarterly but you have to be a qualified tax advisor to get that, so in terms of a potential graduate I don't think they would be able to access that necessarily but definitely check out websites, for example the Deloitte website would have the key tax issues that you would be expected to be aware of.

If you weren't in this career, what would you be doing?

That is a really good question. I am really, really pleased with my career actually because it totally suits my situation. I am in a position now where I can either stay in the UK and go for Partner, which senior managers are encouraging me to do, and is great, or I can move country and start something completely fresh so I don't think I would have changed anything and am really pleased how it has worked out.